Fluent in 3 Months... by Benny Lewis

Discussion in 'Product Reviews' started by kikenyoy, Mar 20, 2014.

  1. Big_Dog

    Big_Dog Administrator Staff Member

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    This review ended up being longer than I wanted, so I decided to divide it up into parts.

    Big_Dog Review of fi3m - Contents

    Some people have asked about the contents, and just reading the table of contents on Amazon doesn’t give a very detailed picture, so I thought it would be good to summarize here. I kept it pretty brief, due to lack of time, but if you have a specific area you want more info on, ask and I’ll try to answer. Keep in mind this is just the first part of the review, so maybe your question will be answered later.

    Introduction – Story. He tells the story of how he went from a not-so-great language student in high school, to an accomplished polyglot 10 years later. He talks about motivation, and his belief that passion is required to succeed in language learning.

    Chapter 1 – Myths. He de-bunks 20 language learning myths, such as “I’m too old to learn a language”, reinforcing his belief that there really is nothing that should keep you from learning a language.

    Chapter 2 – Mission. He suggests that you have a mission to learn a language. He talks about goals, fluency, the CEFR scale, and states that you can be fluent in 3 months.

    Chapter 3 – Vocabulary. He writes about mnemonics, SRS’s, singing and short speeches as ways to help memorize words and phrases.

    Chapter 4 - Immersion. He writes about the advantages of learning languages at home, suggests how to set up an immersion environment, and ways to contact native speakers.

    Chapter 5 – Conversation. He writes about the advantages of conversing from day one, and describes his method of doing this. He also suggests learning Esperanto for 2 weeks as a way to grease the skids for your other language.

    Chapter 6 - Tips. He gives tips, or short-cuts, for beginners of specific languages, involving vocabulary, grammar, scripts, tones and sign language.

    Chapter 7 – Study. For people using his method, after they get somewhat comfortable speaking, he suggests ways to improve through studying grammar, having conversations with tutors on specific topics, using movies, books, exams and thinking in the language.

    Chapter 8 – Native. Methods for becoming more like a native speaker are described, such as accent improvement, dressing, gestures and colloquial speech.

    Chapter 9 - Polyglot. He defines polyglot, discusses how one goes about learning several languages, limitations to the number and knowledge levels of languages a polyglot can learn, how to keep from mixing up languages, Richard Simcott and learning grammatical terms.

    Chapter 10 – Resources. He mentions free and cheap resources, language logs, social networking and a free resource on his site called “conversation connectors”.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2014
  2. Peregrinus

    Peregrinus Active Member

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    Very nice overview of the contents. Still nothing novel in the details themselves, apart from the assertion one can be fluent in 3 months.



    How does he define fluent? How he defines that is the basis for how he will define polyglot. Specifically, does he include a metric for reading and listening comprehension involving native materials?
  3. Big_Dog

    Big_Dog Administrator Staff Member

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    Big_Dog Review of fi3m – Pros

    I think many learners will find this book to be inspirational and encouraging. Benny shares a great deal of his personal experiences that lots of readers will enjoy and relate to. Constantly being reminded of the easy aspects of language learning will take the edge off for some people. The frequent reinforcement that anyone can learn a language will give some students more confidence.

    The book is pretty comprehensive in it’s advice. There is something written on most basic language learning topics, and while language learning advice is often a matter of personal preference, his advice has clearly worked for Benny, and will probably work for most beginners.

    Comparing this book to How to learn any language, I think beginners will find it more useful. It’s written in the time of the internet, so many of the latest tools and programs are discussed. The reader is constantly reminded to check out related links in his blog, and I believe there is a plan to keep those links updated, so in many ways the information in the book will be good for a long time.

    The book was written for beginners, but there are probably a few things of interest in it for most experienced learners. For example:

    Even though it isn’t suitable for everyone, the description of how to start conversing from day 1, and a whole method based on and centered around conversation is groundbreaking and interesting. This was my favorite part of the book.

    My second favorite part of the book was the chapter on becoming more native-like. I might not want to do this personally, but still, I found these to be really good ideas and examples - dressing and acting like natives.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  4. Big_Dog

    Big_Dog Administrator Staff Member

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    He defines it as B2. We had an interesting discussion about this here. His actual quote, found on pg 56
    As others have stated, this is a big reversal on what he always said before he published the book. He used to say it was just a goal, and that he wasn't insinuating you could become fluent in 3 months.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
  5. Big_Dog

    Big_Dog Administrator Staff Member

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    Big_Dog Review of fi3m – Cons (introduction)

    These are listed in the order that I encountered them. There is the introduction and 10 chapters. I'll try to post at least a chapter per day.

    In the introduction he tells the story of how he went from a not-so-great language student in high school, to an accomplished polyglot 10 years later. He talks about motivation, and his belief that passion is required to succeed in language learning.

    1) I bought a paper copy, and the numerous referrals to his blog are very distracting. I’ve only seen this kind of thing before in a printed out programming book. Normally paper books have a note in the front, or end, directing readers to a website. I know that there is a kindle edition, and so the links are clickable, which is convenient. But they look bad on paper, so if he wants to only have one version, then I recommend that he just make the text a clickable link. At the end of the book, he can direct people to his blog. He can make his blog searchable by the book page numbers, chapters, etc. Problem solved.

    2) He wowed a Thai tourist with a few phrases of basic Thai using all the right tones. If you watch his Thai video, he says about 15 sentences. Most of the time the audio is poor, but there are subtitles, and it’s usually possible to tell what he’s saying, and how good his pronunciation is. I believe he only had 2 or 3 sentences in which he didn’t make a tone mistake, and only one sentence (อร่อยดี – delicious) where everything (tones, vowels & consonants) was pronounced correctly. He has stated that his tones are correct, and that natives have confirmed it. I challenge a native or anyone else to point out more than 3 sentences where his tones are correct (ครับ doesn’t count). For example, in his second sentence (ยินดีต้อนรับที่กรุงเทพฯ – Welcome to Bangkok) he got 4 of the 7 tones wrong. Bangkok was pronounced so poorly that I wouldn’t have understood it without the subtitles. He has said elsewhere that he doesn’t maintain his Thai, so I doubt he fixed his tone errors in time for that meeting with the Thai tourist.

    3) The “traditional approach”, that’s used in classrooms, rarely produces speakers, and something about the educational system needs to be fixed. The teacher’s main task should be as a facilitator, and should have more activities like role playing in the classroom. I feel that this is a straw man, which Benny brings up over and over again. What he’s describing sounds like a very old fashioned grammar based class. I assume these are pretty rare now. I went to high school 35 years ago, and my classes and teachers were like the good ones he described. I’m sure there are problems with many classes, but I think painting the majority of classes as dry and grammar based is inaccurate.

    4) There is too much written about inadequacies of other methods. I don’t mind a brief summary of what he dislikes about other approaches, but he repeats himself again and again. It’s a short book, and the extra pages could have been used for expanding on some of the things I mention elsewhere in this review.

    5) You have to have the right kind of motivation to learn a language. For example, wanting to converse with native speakers is good motivation, but wanting to advance your career is bad motivation. He uses the word “passion” for good motivation, then continues to use it throughout the book. We covered this in another thread. This is clearly false. Any motivation, as long as it’s strong enough, can lead to success in language learning. There is no bad motivation. In general, he should replace the word “passion” with “motivation” throughout the book. Being willing to do whatever it takes, no matter what the level of embarrassment, will greatly improve your chances of being successful. I would prefer if he tempered this a little. Quitting ones job might be overkill, for example. Passion(motivation) will ensure that you will soon be able to speak your target language. This isn’t true because someone may be limited by the amount of time they can devote to study.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  6. Peregrinus

    Peregrinus Active Member

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    Thanks for the further details in your review. Again it doesn't seem like there is anything new there, and he continues with his redefinition of "fluent". It is obvious that some language require more time to master to any degree at all, and his not making that distinction, which shows in bad tonal use, should put off anyone studying a tonal language, if not any language.

    Re the "traditional" approach criticism, that is true, but trivially so. And it probably extends to the current fascination with the communicative method which doesn't seem to do a lot better from what I have read. The fact that the implementation of other methods in school settings mostly fail, is no argument in favor of his so-called method.

    It sounds like the old favorite, Barry Farber's book, is still a better book to recommend to new language learners. At least he didn't make over-inflated claims from what I remember of it.
  7. Cainntear

    Cainntear Active Member VIP member

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    Pretty typical for him. I remember the Language Hacking Guide as being a stream of vague statements that constantly referred forward to more information to come. Benny's convinced he knows something, and every time he tries to articulate it, he finds he can't. As a self-defence mechanism, he falls back on saying it has been explained elsewhere or it will be explained shortly.

    The sad thing is, Benny would know exactly what he's talking about if he had been willing to discuss it open-mindedly either on his blog or on forums like HTLAL

    I really did try to engage him in conversation, but he always felt threatened, and resorted to insults and sly asides, then censoring and complaining. And I'm not only talking about subjective stuff -- even factual things, like the nature of linguistics, or indeed...
    Yup. He kept saying "they should be using the communicative approach". I kept saying "they do." He didn't listen.

    He also criticises linguists for being obsessed with structure. He said linguists wouldn't be interested in things like the Italian "squillo" (a missed call on a mobile as a sort of "Facebook poke", if you remember those). I said he was wrong. A professional linguist said it all falls under the umbrella of semiotics. Benny's response was basically ah, OK, but you're all still wrong anyway, even if I can't explain why.

    Again, he's just compensating for the lack of positive information.
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  8. biTsar

    biTsar Active Member VIP member

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    We'd now have Benny 2.0 instead of this early beta nagware.
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  9. Big_Dog

    Big_Dog Administrator Staff Member

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    You bet. 10 more chapters to come.
  10. kikenyoy

    kikenyoy Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, well, well, speak of the Devil...

    I read this thread and then went to a video game site and take a look at the ad: f89602c853283ae0a688eb8b30ad605f.png

    I clicked it and I guess now he has a premium version with an audio book and video files of him demonstrating the techniques. There is a 10 minute Youtube video where he speaks a few lines in several different languages and outlines the course. I only listened to a minute or two. Here's a link if anyone's interested:
    http://fi3mplus.com/premium/?utm_source=retargeting&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=adroll
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  11. Wise owl chick

    Wise owl chick Active Member

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    I think that Benny's book will be better that the terrible and useless Babel one by Erard. It can't be worse. But I haven't read Benny's book, I bought Erard's book but I hated it, it was absolultey boring and stupid therefore I put it in the trash LOL.

    Of course Benny try to learn too many languages, and too quickly. I don't believe that it's possible to be fluent in 3 months, except in a dialect of your native language, possibly. I was fluent in Ducth after 6 months, but I was only about 12, and when you are so young it's different.

    The ad is veyr silly, that you "don't have to be gifted".o_O Of course you haven't to be gifted, all Africa is multilingual, also many in Asia, it's impossible that they are ALL gifted. But to become fluent in a completely new langauge not similar with your own in 3 months when you are adult then yes, you have to be profoundly gifted and in effect this is not sufficient, you must have great lessons and live in the country or with the native speakers.
  12. Cainntear

    Cainntear Active Member VIP member

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    I hope I get that ad. I'd click it every time.
  13. Big_Dog

    Big_Dog Administrator Staff Member

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    Hilarious ad! Actually, I wanted to post that Benny is missing out on the best opportunity to cash in on the success of the book by not selling some language products. Preferably his own, but even having an agreement to sell someone else's stuff would be ok. All these people who he's convincing to learn languages his way would love to pay him back for his encouragement by buying products. This is the time, because over 90% of those people will quit in the near future, if you believe the statistics. Releasing a "premium" version is more effective than nothing I suppose.
  14. Big_Dog

    Big_Dog Administrator Staff Member

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    Big_Dog Review Part 3 – Cons (chapter 1)

    In this chapter he de-bunks 20 language learning myths, such as “I’m too old to learn a language”, reinforcing his belief that there really is nothing that should keep you from learning a language.

    1) The benefits children have over adults are summarized, but they didn’t include the fact that they have better memories and develop better accents. If the benefits are to be listed, it would be better to list all of them.

    2) He didn’t learn German in school because he used the excuse “I don’t have the language gene”. But on page 5 he blames it on the fact that he didn’t have passion, and the fact that his high school class was really bad. If he wants to say it was due to several reasons, that’s fine. The way it’s presented he puts all the blame on a single factor, but keeps changing the factor.

    3) He says when learning a language, there is not a single moment to waste, and gives many examples of using free time to study. Telling people how they can use their free moments to study is fine, but counseling them to spend every free moment studying is overkill. Also, imo he should have cited Barry Farber here; this is one of his most famous topics.

    4) He says that the learner should be satisfied with any readily available, inexpensive course. I agree that one shouldn’t wait around trying to find the perfect course, but see nothing wrong doing a little research to try to select a good course in your price range. It’s just common sense – learn a little about the language and the materials available to study it before you start. In Chapter 10 he says any time spent researching the best materials would be better spent practicing the language. I disagree; big exaggeration. A little research can be a very useful thing.

    5) It’s discouraging to find out a target language is difficult. Some people will be discouraged if you tell them their target language is difficult, some if you tell them that it’s easy. I can’t speak for other language learners, but I prefer not to be coddled. It’s better to give us the facts about the language, and let us react how they will.

    6) When he was learning Chinese a lot of westerners tried to discourage him. They told him his previous experience didn’t matter, because he was learning the hardest language in the world. People who exclusively learned Chinese told him that European languages are easy. Chinese isn’t that difficult. Benny was probably discouraged by some people being rude to him, but they were rude because he set a goal of reaching C1 in 3 months, and made some insulting statements about the techniques and progress of other westerners trying to learn Chinese. I don’t doubt that some said Chinese was the hardest language, but the C1 thing is what started it all. I don’t remember exclusive Chinese learners telling him that European languages are easy per say, but some did say that they were easier than Chinese. Then he made a post claiming all those who disagreed with him hadn’t studied European languages. Shortly after that, quite a few Chinese learners who had also learned European languages repeated that European languages were much easier. But he just kept on saying the people who disagreed with him had never studied European languages. So it doesn’t surprise me to see this claim again in his book. English speakers at FSI take about 3 to 4 times as long to learn Chinese than French, which matches my experience. Imo, that makes Chinese difficult.

    7) You reach a plateau because something in your current approach is not allowing you to progress. Although this might be the case, it also might not be. It’s very possible the learner doesn't notice improvement. Also, improvement sometimes seems to come in spurts, even though you study steadily. One should avoid panicking and adjusting their method just because they didn’t notice improvement over the past week. Making adjustments too often conflicts with advice earlier in his book of just sticking with a program. On the other hand, if it’s been a month, it’s probably time to do something.

    8) Having a goal of mastery is a bad idea, because it’s unachievable. And in chapter 2 Aiming for Perfection is a fool’s errand. I personally don’t like to set unreasonable goals, but many claim it helps them. For example, Benny does this himself in his language missions. He says if he shoots for the stars, maybe he’ll land on the moon, or something like that. So it’s just strange to see him advise against something he does himself.

    9) If you find studying languages boring, than you are doing it the wrong way and you need to change your method. I think most people get bored with studies at times. So telling people they need to change their method just because they get bored sometimes is extreme. If they are bored most of the time, to the point where they can’t progress, it’s time for a change. But that’s very different from getting bored occasionally.

    10) It makes no sense to delay conversation, because regardless of how long you wait, you will never feel ready to start. I delay conversation 2 or 3 months, until I reach a specific level, and then I start. I don’t make excuses to cause further delays, I just start. I don’t doubt that some people procrastinate, but saying everybody needs to start immediately to avoid cold feet is not true.

    11) When you finally start to converse, people are encouraging, happy, patient and understanding. In the very beginning, when I know very little, people usually pretty happy to hear very short exchanges. Getting someone to tolerate long exchanges when I have a really low skill level isn’t very easy. Actually, I speak several languages, and do language exchanges several times a week. We normally do 15 min L2 followed by 15 min L1. I always keep my end of the bargain, and try to make the exchange as interesting and helpful as possible for my partner. But if his L1 level is really low, I will avoid using him again if there is another partner available. This isn’t the only criterion I use to choose a partner, but it plays a big role. When I start to speak I do the same thing Benny does – I hire tutors. They are paid good money to have their ears tortured. Anyway, my point is, not everybody is patient and understanding while you have poor skills.

    12) Having an accent doesn’t hinder communication. Poor pronunciation can cause you not to be understood at all. I believe developing good pronunciation is the very first thing you should do when learning a language, because if you don’t, you will be fossilizing bad pronunciation with everything you do until you finally decide to work on it. Reversing bad pronunciation isn’t impossible, but it’s pretty hard. Incidentally, this is another good reason not to start conversing from day one; you are better off developing good pronunciation first.

    13) The first thing you should do is tell your friends and family that you are truly passionate about the language and that you need their support. Why put yourself, your friends and family through this? If you really need their support to learn a language, you probably don’t have strong enough motivation to succeed.

    14) Learning a new language will never be replaced by technology. I believe it depends on motivation. If technology satisfies the motivation of a learner, he will probably not learn the language. I believe technology will reduce the percentage of language learners in the future, or at least those who aren’t so interested in reaching a high level.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  15. Wise owl chick

    Wise owl chick Active Member

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    I think that Benny is fun and friendly, much more fun that the incredibly boring "professor" on the other forum.

    But I don't understand why he said that if you like grammar, then his method isn't good for you. If you learn a foreign language you must learn the grammar or what you say will be incomprehensible or completely weird and you won't understand the others. although, yes, you can communicate with vocabulry if the basic communication is your aim.

    Also, my opinion about what Big Dog told that Benny wrote:

    (12) I think that the pronunciation is important, and that for sure it can hinder communicaiton if it's not clear.

    (8) I think that mastery is sometimes possible but of course not in 3 months, and not wihtout grammar etc. Mastery is never quick, but for sure the most fulfilling and wonderful aim.

    (5) In my opinion all target languages are difficult if you want to learn veyr well. Some are easier if you want only a low level, especially the ones similar with your own language.

    for example, i can understand Afrikaans and Italian and I've never studied or had a lesson but they are transparent with my other langauges. Arabic or japanese I can't understand at all. But I would love to speak very well Arabic.​

    (1) I think that children learn automatically natively, adults can't. this change is when you are about 10-12 years I think. Older = more difficult.

    But the neurology discover much all the time, and for example that the brain is capable of more that they had thought before, I mean for example when it must 'learn' some new things when you are an adult, but it must receive good training, it's not automatic like when you are a little child.

    Some years I was so fed up and frustrated with one thing which was a nasty feeling in my arm but because I can feel my arm and move it therefore seem normal, they didn't find it important at all. but one of my teacher / doctor has improved this nasty feeling, it's nearly disappeared now, this is incredible and great. I've asked her how, and she said that it was by brain connections and intuition. of course I was in the appointments LOL but it wasn't evident how. It's like the training with the languages' learning: I think that specialised and good training can possibly help an adult natively learn a foreign language, but the adults' brains can't do this automatically.

    When the people say about the languages that the adults learn better, they are absolutely wrong!!! :eek: The same with sports and music. But in the future, it will be discovered how to improve the adults' learning I think, by the neurologic training and for sure they better be open for the possibilities, not like now when all the things not completely accepted or known are considered delusional.

    It would be great to research the neurologic langauges' learning by the different ages. They know very little at the moment about all this things. I'd love to do such research haha, :) but first I must study in the university. o_O

    But I don't think that an adult can become truly native, because it's the change in your soul, not only knoweldge and ability.

    Therefore benny can't list them all because nobody know them (all). ​

    (13) tell your friends: it depend of your friends, but in my experience, they find the langauges annoying and are fed up with them.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  16. biTsar

    biTsar Active Member VIP member

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    Sounds like Benny's editor's name is Pat Answer.
  17. Peregrinus

    Peregrinus Active Member

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    Since as Big_Dog has noted re Benny's 3 month fluency claim being different from previously, and Cainntear about his penchant for moving the goal posts, it is somewhat useless to discuss the minutiae of Benny's "method" since they seem constantly in flux. Better to just discuss the topics in isolation from whatever Benny currently thinks about them. But as biTsar indicated, Benny does have a talent for platitudes.
  18. Wise owl chick

    Wise owl chick Active Member

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    Benny is ok, little bit exhausting person but not nasty. At least he is fun, not boring. He motivate well I think. I like him.

    "Prof A" is the best cure for my insomnia in all the world, a general anesthetiser and energy, thoughts and interest extraction vampire. but not nasty also, only completely, totally absolutely incredibly BORING if he were my teacher I'd sleep during all the lesson and a million yeasr after.
  19. Cainntear

    Cainntear Active Member VIP member

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    You've not been on the receiving end of it.
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  20. Peregrinus

    Peregrinus Active Member

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