Cristina's exile way :-)

Discussion in 'Language Learning Logs & Super Challenges' started by Solfrid Cristina, Apr 19, 2014.

  1. Solfrid Cristina

    Solfrid Cristina Member VIP member

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    Native Language:
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    Since HTLAL is wobbly right now, I'll post here, and glue it in my log there later. For those who do not know me, my main focus is on Russian, where I am currently at an A2. I also try to maintain my other languages, of which I speak three fairly well (English, French and Spanish) and two which I am struggling to keep up - Italian and German - and then of course there is Swedish, which I have always considered to be a purely passive language, but for which I got quite positive feed back when I used it in the multilingual YouTube video.


    Anyway, I have been doing quite a lot of Russian over the last few weeks. I have done lots of work on the cases and I have read about half an Agatha Christie. I love Agatha Christie, and the first book I usually read in a new language will be an Agatha Christie. I have read it in 11 languages so far (Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, English, German, French, Spanish, Italian, Dutch, Portuguese and Russian). And for the record, I do not speak all those languages :)

    I also had an incredibly weird experience on Thursday. My sister let me listen to a tape which was recorded of my family almost exactly 50 years ago. My contribution was negligible, as I was 14 months old, so it consisted of variations over " loa-loa" and protesting noises. However I was extremely surprised to hear my sister and my father use dialects I have never heard them use, because by the time I remember them speaking, we had moved to another part of the country, and they had toned down/ changed their dialect, as that was in the time where dialects were not quite as popular as they are today in Norway.

    My father read some texts in English and French, and I was pleasantly surprised to hear that his accent was quite good. He had never been to England, yet he had managed to pick up a very good English accent, which was actually quite impressive considering that he learned his accent in the 40ies, when tapes were far from being as readily available as they are today. His intonation was occasionally a bit off, but other than that I could not really catch him making any mistakes. His French was not quite as good, but having learned it under similar circumstances (no immersion, probably no audio) it was still quite impressive. What was absolutely amazing was his German pronunciation - which he had learned in the hardest way possible. After studying German at the University of Oslo in 1943, he, together with a few hundred other students and teachers from the university were shipped off to concentration camps in Germany, where they stayed until they were freed in 1945, and taken home by the White Buses, organized by the Swedes. Not the most conventional nor pleasant as immersion stays go, but highly effective. It was always a source of pride to me when I was a kid and my parents spoke German to Germans, because generally their jaw would drop, since my parents were both fluent, with only the slightest hint of an accent to betray that they were not native. We spent several holidays in Germany, when I was a child, and it was where I took my first steps. My mother never got tired of telling me stories of the kindness with which they were treated - probably precisely because they spoke the language so well. At the same tape, recorded in the early 60ies, my father asked my mother what she planned to use their shiny new toy, the tape recorder, for, and she answered that she was hoping to find some tapes which would teach her French (which was a not so subtle hint to my father, as he was a French teacher, with a master in French, yet he refused to teach her any). Anyway, it felt like opening a time capsule, and I felt so much closer to my parents, who passed away three years ago.

    The Super Challenge registration has started, and I have registered with Russian again. I was disappointed about not succeeding last year, but between my very low level when I started out, and the -eventful - year I had last year, I guess I should not beat myself up about it. Last year I was between A1 and A2 - now I am a solid A2, which I hope is enough for me to complete the challenge, which in turn should push me into a B1. I may add half challenges in Italian, German or French later on, as I saw what amazing results I got with my French last time, even if I did not complete the challenge, but now in the start I will focus on Russian.

    And please forgive any poor language as I write now. I was up until 4.30 in the morning, waiting for my daughters to come home from their vacation, so with three hours of sleep under my vest, writing now is probably the equivalent of the rambling you do when you are calling your ex-boyfriend when you are drunk. Not a terribly good idea, normally :)
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  2. Solfrid Cristina

    Solfrid Cristina Member VIP member

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    VENICE AND SLOVENIA

    You know how sometimes you plan something to be absolute perfect, and then it turns out horrible, and then in the end things turn out great anyway? This trip was one of those. I was going to Portoroz in Slovenia for a business trip, something which I was really looking forward to, because I have heard wonderful things about Slovenia, and I always like to see a new country.

    Little did I know that before the trip was over, I would be in excruciating pain, cast my eyes on a really hot guy, promise a high ranking Russian official that I'd deliver a speech in Russian in Moscow in front of 200 people (possibly including members of the government), and for all practical purposes propose to go skinny dipping in the night with a guy I absolutely hate. After having told him so. All this while utterly and completely sober.


    I could chose between flying into Trieste, Venice and Ljubljana, and since I know Venice is a total tourist trap, plus I have been there several times before I decided to go to either Ljubljana to see a capital I have never been to, or to Trieste to practice some Italian and experience some real Italian culture. 99% of this year's vacation budget has been spent on my daughters, but I figured I could afford to spend one night at a hotel. And then of course Venice turned out to be the only airport with direct connections to Oslo, so I ended up there, but I reminded myself that there are considerably worse fates than spending 24 hours in Venice, which let's face it, is absolutely lovely with its canals and bridges.

    So after activating my oh so rusty Italian, I put on a T-shirt and my brand new shorts and wandered around, looking at a postcard there, buying an ice cream with my favorite flavors of rhum/raisin and amarena there, planning to go out in the evening to have a really good dinner in an Italian restaurant, thinking that life did not really get much better than this.

    After three hours I was sitting on the vaporetto, suddenly realizing that I was. In. A. Lot. Of. Pain. I had made the rookie mistake of not remembering that three hours of hot Italian sun on my white legs, unprotected by any suntan lotion, was an extremely bad idea, and from my ankles and 10-15 cm up I was really badly burned. I found a pharmacy and got an after sun, and went straight home, and spent the next hour putting on lotion and taking most of the painkillers I could find, which unfortunately were not a lot, before deciding to try to sleep it off. I woke up after 6 hours, in even worse pain, I literally winced in pain just by walking the meter and a half between my bed and the bathroom. It felt like somebody had put a band of red hot iron around my ankles, and it was so swollen and red that I considered going to a doctor, but given that it was 23.00 h and I would have been incapable of going down into the reception, let alone getting to a doctor, I put on some more lotion, took the remaining painkillers and went to sleep again.

    The next morning my ankles were still hurting like hell, my back was hurting from all the hours in bed, and as often happens when my back hurts, I also had gotten a bad headache. And no painkillers left. Brilliant. I was not supposed to be picked up until 6 in the evening, and realizing that there was no way on earth that I could survive wandering around the city, as my plan was, I managed to crawl down to the reception and pay for another night, so that they allowed me to stay in the room until 5. Feeling very proud that I was still able to do all the communication in Italian. I also got some breakfast, since the previous day's nourishment had consisted of a 6 o'clock breakfast and the ice cream. A far cry from the delicious Italian dinner I had envisaged.I figured that I could then spend my day reading the Russian book I had brought, only to realize that I had forgotten the book on the plane. Perfect. I spent the rest of the day putting on aftersun and drifting in and out of sleep, and felt quite literally like something the cat had dragged home when going on the vaporetto with all my luggage.

    Once I got into the car which would take me to Slovenia, things turned quite distinctly for the better, though. My driver was really nice and interesting and funny, had lived in Cuba and Siberia and worked on a sub marine ( not in Siberia:) and was fluent in Slovenian, Croatian, Russian, Italian, German and English. So I spent the next two hours, laughing, discussing politics, and history and learning Slovenian. By the time I was in Portoroz I had learned how to count to 10.000 (really regular counting, and very similar to Polish and Russian) and could say hello, good morning, good bye, my name is, thank you, you're welcome and cat, dog and horse. Because you never know when those three words may come in handy. The word for cat sounded like another word for mummy, the word for dog was like fish in Spanish, and horse I thankfully remembered from Polish. It never ceases to amaze me how useful my handful of left over Polish words is when learning other Slavic languages.

    The next day was spent on meetings, mostly in English, but I always get a little French, Spanish and German thrown in, which is nice. I really should insist that my German and Italian colleagues speak only German and Italian with me, I sorely need the practice, but the thought of using such a limited vocabulary with them, and not being able to be anywhere near eloquent, bugs me. As it was, the longest conversation I had in German was for about 10 minutes, and was caused by the fact that we did not want the Frenchman standing next to us to know what we were talking about. Normally these meetings are held in Paris, but since the organization was originally founded in Portoroz, this is where we went this time. And it was a big production, with no less than four ministers at the top table. Two from Slovenia, one from Greece and one from China. We have previously had the Brazilian president at our meeting, and although it totally beats me why politicians would have the slightest interest in attending a meeting of railway people, I assume the Directors Generals have friends in high places.

    While I was sitting at the afternoon meeting, I realized that the next day's meeting did not start until one o'clock, so I called my favorite Slovenian driver, who had been thoughtful enough to give me his card, and he agreed to drive me to Croatia which was just 10 km away. The next morning he brought me to a lovely little town called Umag which was really nice. The waiter of the restaurant I stopped insisted that he could not understand how a woman like me could be there alone, and that I would not remain alone long in that neck of the woods (flattery will get you everywhere) which of course put me in an even better mood. I tried to get hold of Agatha Christie in Croatian while I was there, but could not find it, so I ended up with Garfield instead. Which is probably just as well. Whether I have an Agatha Christie book or Garfield in a language of which I understand next to nothing, really doesn't make much difference. And then I had another long chat with the driver on my way back, filled with laughs and history and philosophical considerations not found in any book of philosophy.

    In the afternoon we had our General Assembly, with people from 5 continents, and there was translation to Russian which I listened to occasionally, feeling really blue for not understanding more. There was a proposal to extend the period of the Russian president, Jakunin, and although I would probably end up in a screaming match with him if we were to discuss politics, I really admire what he has done as a president of this organization, so I took the floor and said that I supported his candidacy, and that he had brought an energy, and efficiency and a structure to the organization that we really appreciated. Since I was the only European to say anything, and since I am more known for my harsh words than my kindness, in this particular organization, that took a lot of people by surprise.

    So when the meeting was over, the highest ranking Russian official came over to me, shook my hand, thanked me, and assured me that he would personally convey my words to the president. Now had this been just any Russian railway official, that would not have made much impact. But this particular guy is super sexy, super handsome, tall, sophisticated, and with a hint of great abs under his tailor made suit, and my heart makes an extra jump every time he smiles at me or says my name. And I usually do not really notice what my male colleagues even look like, they are just colleagues, but this one is really, really hard not to notice.

    Consequently I suggested that they arrange a meeting in Moscow, and in a fit of momentary insanity I promised to give a speech in Russian, in Moscow, in front of everyone, if they did. He smiled, and asked if I might need help writing that speech, and I answered that I most probably would. So he smiles even broader, and goes. "Well then I am the first on your list. And I'm the last on your list."

    I still hope that my answer was that I might take him up on that, and not something totally unintelligible or incoherent, because my brain sort of short circuited there and then. He probably just meant to be friendly, but I suddenly grasped why a guy who is interested in you might read a lot more into joking remarks you make than you intend him to.

    Thankfully we had an official picture at that point, and then I sprinted away to go for a swim, after which I had asked out for dinner the only one of my colleagues that I actively dislike. It was one of those "it seemed like a good idea at the time" sort of thing. He works for a railway I am obliged to be on good terms with. We actually had a good time during the dinner, and I do not like to have any bad feelings for anyone, so I guess it actually was not such a bad idea. On our way to the dinner I had told him that I had been swimming, and he told me that he had not, because he was not too fond of swimming and he had not brought any swim wear. On our way back I told him that it was tough to figure him out, and that although I appreciated a lot of his work, he made me really, really mad sometimes. He told me that he tended to have that effect on people. In our way into the hotel I said that I doubt there was anyone bathing now, and he answered that he supposed not, but that it would probably be absolutely magic now. I do not know if it was his unexpected choice of words which triggered it, but I jokingly asked if he was sure that he would not like to go for a swim after all, and he assured me that he was, and then we said goodbye.

    And it was not until 5 minutes later that it hit me, that between him having told me he had brought no swim wear, and me suggesting a nightly swim, he must have thought I was suggesting that we go skinny dipping in the dark. And although I wanted to mend fences with this guy, that would have been 3-4 bridges too far for me.

    Anyhow, it started out as a disaster of a trip, but I actually had a great time in the end. And I am healing. I have not even looked at another man since I broke out of my marriage. And I am still not ready for much more, but at least I am able to look now. Which is a start. Looking is all I'll do anyway, as anything remotely resembling dating in this environment is 100 % out of the question.

    And I even managed to put out of my head ideas as to what wonders dating a Russian would do for my Russian skills.

    I think I'll just have to continue using the more conventional methods, but I have actually worked really hard using those lately. I have had a lot of Russian classes, and I regularly meet up with the sweetest girl imaginable, who is from the Russian speaking minority in Ukraine, and we come together as often as we can and I teach her Norwegian and get to practice my Russian. Great arrangement!
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  3. biTsar

    biTsar Active Member VIP member

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    Velkommen tilbake.
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  4. Solfrid Cristina

    Solfrid Cristina Member VIP member

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    BURNING TIRES, MOJITO YOGHOURTS AND OAT MEAL PORRIDGE AT MCDONALD'S

    Boy. My life spins so fast at the moment, I am almost getting motion sickness, and it is really unpredictable which situations a language interest may bring you into. Right now I am stuck in an apartment with no working toilet and where there were riots with burning tires just 100 meters away 48 hours ago.

    After Norway having been under threat from Islamist terrorist for the last week, and the unprecedented sight of armed police on Norwegian streets, I left the country. For Ukraine. I'll be in Kyiv for a month. And for all those who wonder: No, I do not have a death wish, but I am counting on things being a lot calmer than they appear in the media. I have even brought my daughter this time. And I am not going anywhere near Eastern Ukraine. Just in case though, I have brought an extra passport, train tickets for all neighbor countries towards the west in case my plane will not take off, I will alert my friends in Romania and Poland that I am here , and I carry two extra credit cards and a lot more cash than I normally do, in both euro, dollars, Norwegian kroner and Ukrainian griven, so I should be ok.

    I have been meaning to write an entry in my log about coming here, but between a lovely visit from Richard Simcott (Torbyrne), a wonderful visit from Tarvos and those of my Russian friends who were not on vacation, the heaviest heat wave in the history, my cat getting severely wounded and needing special care and several visits to the vet, helping a friend who was about to lose her Norwegian citizenship, a two week visit from an American teenager with ADHD and taking as many Russian classes I could squeeze in while working full time at the office while my colleagues were on vacation and trying to read and listen to as much Russian as my brain would allow plus producing staggering amounts of rose jelly - I have been a tad busy...

    The visit from Richard Simcott was, as always, an honor and a pleasure. He is not only one of my favorite polyglots, he is one of my favorite people in the whole wide world. We laughed and discussed life, languages, kids, polyglots and he talked me into going to Novi Sad (I was a total pushover). So I hope more of you are going! At the moment the only one I know of is Iversen, so I am contemplating just how big of a bear hug he is going to get when we finally meet :) I have gotten hold of Pimsleur Croatian and am amazed at how much I understand just through my Russian, my forgotten Polish and my 11 lessons of Ukrainian. I have listened to the first 5 lessons, and I think I heard altogether 6-7 words I did not understand. I am not foolish enough to attempt any active learning, I am aiming for passive knowledge only, but it would be great to understand a little when I get there.


    I have been really, really active with Russian practice lately. I have had between 4-8 private lessons every week, trying to speak as much as possible. My tutors always want me to do grammar, which I know is a total exercise in futility, so I get them to speak with me. My Russian is still highly incorrect, but at least I manage to produce something.

    I arrived in Kyiv a week ago, and it feels like my head will explode. I am an A2 plus, so they put me in what was supposedly an A2/B1 group which included one Norwegian guy who is a high B2, an Italian who is B2 in speaking (if you do not count grammar, where he is as bad as I am) an amazing German guy of Polish origin who cannot read or write Russian but who is a C2 in speaking, which he simply picked up on on the streets from Russian friends, and a French woman who is probably a B2 in grammar and writing, but a low A2 in speaking.

    There are a lot less people here this year, understandably, which is why they have lumped together in one group all those who are beyond an A2 level. We learn so much vocabulary each day, that I have no chance to absorb it all, and the grammar goes way over my head. I also have individual classes in the afternoon, where I thankfully can get help with the grammar I do not understand. I feel I have learned quite a lot in just this one week though, so I cannot wait to see how much I will have learned in a month.

    Our teacher is a tough nail, but she is really, really good, as all the teachers here. When I am willing to walk into a country which for all practical purposes is at war, bringing my daughter - that speaks volumes about the service level and quality of teaching at this school. They are beyond amazing.

    Otherwise when you are in a foreign country, it is always the little things that amazes you. Yoghurt with mojito taste, the fact that when you cross the street you can see exactly how many seconds you have left before it changes to red, and the fabulous feeling when you manage to figure out the menu and order the right things when the menu is in Ukrainian only. Which I do not speak...

    I was not quite prepared for riots though. I live 100 meters from Maidan square, but although the pictures in the news scared my family to death, and the video of burning tires, and brick stones being thrown at the police looks scary to me, we have not seen, heard or smelled a thing. According to the news the smell could be felt all over Kyiv, but I found no one who had felt that, even though the school is also just a few hundred meters from Maidan.

    My teachers are quite vociferous on their lack of support for the people who are still at Maidan, and say that they should go home now, and on a daily basis there are just 3-4 old people left. It is said that they are there because they have nowhere else to go, which I suspect is quite close to the truth. We have been to Maidan every day except the day of the riots though, and it has been a 100% peaceful.

    If I am to pinpoint one major change in Kyiv since I was here last, it is that people smile more. On the metro people used to look into the emptiness with blank faces, but now they speak and laugh more. I have no idea whether that has anything to the change in the political conditions or is just a coincidence, but it is quite noteworthy.

    One thing that has not changed though, is their willingness to engage to defend others. We were bothered by a guy at a restaurant the other day, and as soon as the others understood what was going on, they yelled at him to leave as alone, and one guy was even ready to fight him to help us.

    This willingness to engage is something I admire about Ukrainians and Russians alike. I have never figured out why people have the misconception that Russians are cold. Once you get to know them they are the warmest, kindest most helpful people you can imagine. Where Norwegians will keep their distance for fear of intruding, Russians and Ukrainians engage and help you. I really love that about them. Not that there still is not a fair share of unhelpful people, but most are really kind when you ask for help - or even when you do not ask for help.

    I have used mostly Russian when ordering at restaurants. 90% of the menus are in Russian, and in Kyiv most people I meet are Russian speakers. There are more and more who use Ukrainian though, so in 10 years time that might change, but I have only found a couple of places with Ukrainian menus. On the streets the signs are about half and half I would guess. There was also one restaurant where the waitress spoke to us in fluent English once we accepted an English menu, so it felt wrong to use Russian with her, but otherwise it is all in Russian.

    I have not quite decided whether to go to Russia or Ukraine if I get the opportunity to go again. On the one hand I am really, really happy with the school, and I love Ukraine, on the other hand it would of course be easier if everything around me was in Russian, and I would love to get to know Moscow and its surroundings better. I also adore St. Petersburg, and would love going back there too. I just wish there was not the visa hassles. Though as things stand now, I guess it is unlikely to get any easier any time soon.

    If I can find a few extra free days sometime during the Autumn I would love to go to Moscow. Seeing one of Chekov's play on the Bolshoi theatre would be a dream.

    I also got hold of some Russian literature yesterday. I finally managed to locate both War and Peace, Anna Karenina, The Master and Margerita, Lermontov's 'Heroes of our times' and three volumes of Chekov's short stories. We are doing Chekov's short stories for our Russian classes, and I discovered that I really love them. Our teacher also teaches Russian language and civilization at the university here, so she adds a little literary analysis which I find absolutely great.

    Oh, and my daughter who has just had her first 5 days of Russian bought '50 Shades of Grey' which she insists that she will read in Russian. If that is not a hairy goal, I do not know what is. I suspect that I will pinch them and read them first, but as long as she is motivated to learn to read Russian, she could read Marquis de Sade for all I care.

    I also bought an Agatha Christie in Ukrainian. I know no Ukrainian at the moment, but when my Russian gets stronger I will try to finish the Pimsleur Ukrainian course and a few lessons in Assimil, and I should be good to go.

    We had breakfast at McDonald's today, courtesy of our non functioning toilet, and I made the following observations: They have the best milkshake and the best McFlurry I have ever tasted in any McDonald's, and I have been to a lot since I collect going to McDonald's in different countries. They are also the only ones I know where you can have oat meal porridge for breakfast. And they have an (intended) hole in their toilet doors which half the Ukrainian army could have crawled through quite comfortably. Not quite as comfortable for the occupant, though. I am old fashioned enough to appreciate a bit of privacy. Well, well, at least here I manage to find the ladies' room, and don't go to the men's room by mistake all the time like I did in Russia.

    Ps. If you feel like making conflicting political remarks, you are welcome to. But not here. You are welcome to write a PM to me or whatever you want in your own log, but I am not going to discuss politics here. I love Russians, I love Ukrainians. No past, current or future political systems or leaders will change that. And that is my last word on that subject matter.
  5. Peregrinus

    Peregrinus Active Member

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    Nice trip report. I wish you the best in Russian, and hopefully you will level up significantly while you are there. I find it kind of odd to hear Europeans singing the praises of McD's :). I mean I eat there every now and then, kind of a guilty pleasure, but it just doesn't seem like something other countries would want a taste of with so many other more authentic American foods that would give a better picture of our cuisine. Do let us know about Russian and Ukrainian food though.
  6. Big_Dog

    Big_Dog Administrator Staff Member

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    Fantastic post Cristina!

    Good for you. I'm a little over half way through my own "200 hrs of conversation in less than a year" challenge. Due to some terribly uninteresting personal issues, I can't travel for the next few months, so it's all working out. My grammar still sucks, but it's better than before, and I talk a lot faster now with more vocab. I'm finally comfortable saying that I'm B2, and I'm going to keep going until my listening skills are C1.

    I agree - very nice people.

    McD's, KFC, BK & Pizza Hut - what the world considers to be real American food. Unfortunate, but that's what's out there.
  7. Solfrid Cristina

    Solfrid Cristina Member VIP member

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    Thank you BiTsar, Peregrinus and Polydog for your kind comments.

    Please note that we were not at at McDonald's for their exquisite food, but for their clean bathroom :) They were the closest restaurant and the one which opened first in the morning, and when you do not have an operative bathroom for three days over a week end, that takes precedence over any culinary consideration.

    And yes, I have noted considerable improvement after just a week, so a month should do marvels.

    By the way I wanted to add the missing text at post nr. 2, but I seem to be unable to edit it. Does anyone know how I can edit it? (She says revealing her complete lack of technical knowledge )

    Under this last post there are two buttons for edit and delete, which are missing in the above post.
  8. Peregrinus

    Peregrinus Active Member

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    After a while editing is closed. But you can send Big Dog a message (called private conversations here), and he can make the change for you.
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  9. Solfrid Cristina

    Solfrid Cristina Member VIP member

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    TATOOS AND PANCAKES WITH MASHED POTATOES

    I think my Russian teacher thought I had had too much to drink and was slightly mad on Monday morning, when I started our class (which consisted of her and yours truly) by telling her that she was a witch. She went from lips pressed tightly together to a broad smile when I explained why I thought she was a witch. I told her that on Friday evening I watched "Letters to Juliet" for the third time, and that the two previous times I had understood very little of the dialogue, but that on Friday I was suddenly understanding more than half the dialogue - possibly a little more.

    We got off to a bit of a rough start, since the level of the group was a bit high for me, and she wanted me to dive into advanced B1 level grammar questions, unprepared, when I had already told her that I was more of a low A2 in grammar, even if I was leaning towards a B1 in speaking. I consequently totally blew up. But she is an amazing teacher, and I have had great results so far. She says that she speaks to me at a normal speed, and even if I do not understand everything she says, and I have to ask her about words I do not understand, I am still happy that I can understand half the thing she says at that level.

    Her English is wobbly, which is absolutely brilliant, because that means that with the exception of the occasional word, I do not rely on English anymore, and have to find a way to say it or get it explained in Russian. Today we started telling stories of our lives and of those of women around us, and we could squarely agree on the fact that regardless of political and economic conditions, the condition of women is very similar from one country to another, and you never know what goes on behind closed doors.

    And I had an absolutely amazing experience in my other class. My teacher got me talking on the subject of my ex-husband's bat-shit crazy family, and when I stopped, she said: "You do realize that you have been speaking for an hour straight, during which I have had to correct you five times, and I have given you five words you did not know?"

    I was amazed. I knew, of course that I had spoken for a long time (anything to get out of doing grammar exercises), but I had not thought much about the fact that she had made very few corrections. I assumed that she just did not want to break my flow, but she swore she had corrected all the mistakes that I had made.

    Unfortunately that was a one off. When people speak to me in the street I often do not understand the simplest thing they ask me (of course, sometimes they speak Ukrainian to me, which does not make it easier) so I guess being comfortable, and knowing the topic and the person you speak to well, makes a huge difference.

    Yesterday she asked me how my cat was doing, and since we both adore cats, and are good friends, I did not find that odd, and went in to a long rambling about how it had been attacked by a cat who bit a big chunk of it's butt off. My teacher at this point was looking more and more perplexed, until she asked me "You got attacked by a cat"?

    Turns out she had not asked me about how my cat was doing. Se had asked "So how are you doing, kitten". No wonder she was perplexed at my vivid description of the attack wounds. Me getting into an actual cat fight was not on her short list of my usual activities.

    I have talked her into doing songs with me, so over the last days I have done some Russian traditional songs. None of us have a singing voice anymore, so we just sing along at the top of our voice anyhow, and if the place was not empty by the time we start, it sure is by the time we finish.

    One thing I absolutely love about being here, is that I blend in so well. The one thing that bothered me in Spain was that I stuck out like a sore thumb. Everybody here asks me for directions in Ukrainian and Russian, so my Slovenian taxi driver who said I had a Slavic face may have a point there. Not that I understand how anyone in their right mind would think I am Ukrainian based on the way I dress though. Ukrainian women my age fall into two neat categories: Babushkas and models. The babushkas wear old fashioned clothing, cover their hair with head scarves and are generally fairly plump. The models are often thin, elegantly dressed in expensive outfits with matching high heeled shoes and handbags and look like they just came from the hair dresser to have their 6-week cut. Me with my long hair, shorts, T-shirt, sandals, unshaven legs, generous waist line and backpack do not fall into any conceivable category of Ukrainian women my age.

    Nevertheless, they all think I am Ukrainian. I think my great great great grandfather from Sweden, who according to the family legend was the son of a king, must have been the son of one of the Russian tsars. I simply must have some Russian or Ukrainian blood in me, and he is the only family member that I do not know the family lineage of back to the time of the Black Death.

    I have tried out some of the Ukrainian/Russian/Krimean dishes/drinks, and so far I have loved them all. Pillemini, cheburek, kvas, lemonade, vareniki, shashlik, plov - I like them all. Ok. I may not be a big fan of kvas yet, but I am assuming it is an acquired taste. Blini, which are not small and thick, like American pancakes, but just regular pancakes, are a favorite. I never thought you could put so many strange things in a pancake though. The banana split pancake is great, but I have not yet managed to wrap my brain (or my tounge) around the concept of pancakes with mashed potatoes.

    My environment is also interesting. I live in an upmarket neighborhood next to the Maidan Square, nevertheless my immediate surroundings consist of a tattoo shop, a biker club, a Thai massage place and a beauty parlor. I will visit one of them before I leave, but I have not quite figured out which one yet :)

    There is also a local mini market across the street called "produkti" in Russian, which has one -1- jar of jam, 4 bottles of milk, apples every three days, quail's eggs and 900 bottles of alcohol.

    I am looking forward to Ukrainian Independence Day on Sunday. I expect to see masses of regional costumes, and since I am an absolute sucker for those, that should be interesting. I also heard a band rehearse today, so I am looking forward to some good marching band music.

    Another thing I find puzzling in Kiev is that on every street you have: 1. A "produkti" 2. A pharmacy 3. A notary (Notarius Publicus) . In my street there are two produkti and three notaries. Since the latter category is virtually unknown in Norway, I asked them what they needed so many notaries for. They looked at me like I was some special kind of stupid, and answered "For everything"! Apparently they function as lawyers, real estate brokers and public functionaries for a thousand things we in Norway do not even know about, and have a reputation as clean as an American lawyer or a Brussels taxi driver.

    Ok. That's it for this time. I'll write more soon :)
  10. Peregrinus

    Peregrinus Active Member

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    Nice trip report Solfrid! It sounds like you are underestimating your level in Russian. Even though with just A2 you could probably speak in simple declarative sentences for an hour, you still need a lot of vocabulary to do that. And if she didn't make more than 5 corrections, then your use of declensions, conjugations and verbal aspect must be pretty good as well.

    I was curious and looked up kvass. A low alcohol beverage made from fermented black or rye bread. Doesn't sound especially yummy, but probably a safer beverage than untreated water in earlier times.

    Good luck and I hope you can finally prevail in your years long battle with Russian that you have described on HTLAL.
  11. Solfrid Cristina

    Solfrid Cristina Member VIP member

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    Thank you Peregrinus. My teacher says I have a good foundation for speaking, but that I need more vocabulary. She suggested that I read more and watch more films. I wonder how I will manage that :)
  12. Stelle

    Stelle Active Member VIP member

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    I love it when you reach a point in a language where you have to spend time watching TV in order to progress. Then, if you lose an entire day to being lazy in front of the television, you can call it study. Ha!
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  13. Solfrid Cristina

    Solfrid Cristina Member VIP member

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    @Stelle, Yes, I love that too :)

    UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS, COCKROACHES IN WASHING DETERGENT, FOLK FESTIVALS AND KREPATURA

    I am euphoric right now. I have never been high, but this must be what it feels like to be on something really good. And this is not due to an overdose of Vodka, this is simply because I have spoken Russian all day, and actually felt good. I met an old friend this evening, that I have known for 12 years, but have not seen for 3 years, and for the first time ever we spoke Russian together, we have always spoken French before. We talked for over three hours, and we spoke French for less than 10 minutes. She could not get over how much I had improved (the last time we met I could only say a few sentences) and I could not get over the fact that this felt absolutely normal and comfortable. I don't think I have had this feeling since I learned how to swim. And the amazing thing was that my fear of making mistakes was gone, and it felt just as comfortable to speak in Russian as it did to speak French. This obviously does not mean that I am at the same level: In French I am easily a C1, and in Russian I am a A2/B1, so there is no comparison, but we only switched to French a few times because I needed some very specific vocabulary, not because I was uncomfortable speaking Russian. And since speaking Russian before I came here felt about as comfortable as eating pizza with sand on it, this was a HUGE improvement. I still make lots of grammatical mistakes, and lack a lot of vocabulary, but I can speak relatively freely. I think that what helped a lot was that today I first had my regular 4 classes of Russian, and then I went on a 4 hour guided tour in Russian with a girl who spoke slowly and clearly so that I could understand practically everything she said, which means that by the time I met my friend I had already spoken/listened to Russian for 7 full hours today. The fact that this is someone I am completely comfortable with, even if we have not spoken for a very long time, obviously also helps. But nevertheless speaking Russian felt as good as great sex.

    Otherwise, I have had a busy week. I do 3-4 hours of homework every day, and I speak as much as I possibly can in my classes. I can still get thrown off balance very easily, by someone who talks too fast, or who in general makes me nervous. That makes my brain go into total meltdown in less than 30 seconds. I am vey curious of what will happen if I try to speak Russian with my Russian colleagues in November. I fear that my brain will totally short circuit, and I will have to speak English with them , but I'll try to get some more practice before I go there.

    Last Monday I decided that it was high time I did something with my shape, so I put on my running shoes, and went out to jog. Now of course since I am in such a lousy shape that I am, I have to partly jog, partly walk. I have this really simple system. I jog until it hurts to breathe (that usually takes about 20 m -not minutes but meters) and then I walk until I can breathe freely again, and repeat. I did 25 minutes on Monday, and 25 minutes on Tuesday, where I also included a couple of spurts, running as fast as I could for as long as I could. Generally about 30 meters. Anyhow, women my age (and shape) do not really jog in Ukraine, and particularly not in the centre of Kiev, so I attracted quite a lot of puzzled looks. While I was having an uncommonly long (for me) stretch of jogging, I met a group of Ukrainian solders. Now for a country which is at war, you see very few soldiers here, but these guys were out for their morning jog. I noticed out of the corner of my eye that a few eye brows were raised in surprise when they saw me, and then one of them smiled at me and shouted "Eh, kollega". I was too out of breath to say anything back, so I just smiled back and focused on continuing jogging until they were out of sight, but I suspect that this will be the first and the last time anyone in any armed forces would see any kind of connection at all between them and me. The next day I had the experience of 'krepatura'. I had no idea what that was in English, and was surprised that there did not seem to be a single word for it, as there is in Norwegian and Russian, but the translation given was "Delayed onset muscle soreness". And boy, does that hurt. I have not done any actual exercise for months, and my muscles were not prepared for a pounding two days in a row. The result is that walking up and down stairs, or even just sitting down, or getting up of a chair feels like pure torture. I suddenly understood why the Norwegian verb to "krepere' means to die, because that's what it feels like. I am going to jog again when my muscles have recovered, but in the mean time I am just sticking to walks.

    I was also fortunate enough to spend Independence Day in Kiev. I started off with a military parade and then I was at a folk music festival/competition for four hours, and I must admit that I preferred the latter. Military parades are not really my thing, even though I could see the rationale behind it, and it was interesting to see how enthusiastic people were. Not everyone could stomach four hours of folk music either, but I am generally interested in folk music, and being as interested as I am now in Russian and Ukrainian culture, I was fine. I had decided to go the full 9 yards, so I had dressed up in a Ukrainian shirt and floral hair decoration, and I only realized how successful I was at looking Ukrainian when one of the organizers of the festival though I was one of the contestants. I was sooo sad that I could not speak any Ukrainian at that moment, but I'll get there in time. I just need to 'finish Russian" and learn Polish first, and then I'll get right down to Ukrainian :)

    Otherwise everyone at home seem to believe that I am in great danger while I am here, and even my Ukrainian friend who lives in Kiev was afraid of coming down to Maidan Square. I told her that I had been there every day except for the day when there were riots and Molotov cocktails and burning tires, and that I had not been afraid for a single minute. And I am pretty easily scared. The scariest thing that has happened to me here so far was that a cockroach suddenly appeared while I was doing the dishes so I grabbed the bottle of washing detergent which was standing next to me, and literally drowned it in soap.

    Otherwise everything is fine, I feel safe and have not had any unpleasant experiences whatsoever. I am simply enjoying my Russian course :)
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  14. Big_Dog

    Big_Dog Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm happy for you but at the same time I'm soo jealous. I'm stuck here dealing with some nasty legal issues while you and another friend of mine are enjoying Kiev. He tell's me he's neck deep in girlfriends (paraphrasing), and can't understand why I don't join him. By the time I get free, there'll probably be snow on the ground. Waah! :eek:

    I'm glad you're safe, and really impressed by your progress. Is your daughter doing ok? Keep up the good work!
  15. Solfrid Cristina

    Solfrid Cristina Member VIP member

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    Well, I am not neck deep in girlfriends, but I have made a lot of progress :)
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  16. Solfrid Cristina

    Solfrid Cristina Member VIP member

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    SOLIDARITY SHOWERS, NO SHOWERS AND DESPERATE ITALIANS

    What is a solidarity shower, you ask? A solidarity shower is when you take cold showers only, even if you have hot water in your apartment, because 80% of the city will not have hot water until October, and you cannot bear to spend the energy they so sorely need when the winter comes. I was shocked when I found out that my daughter did not know what the word solidarity meant (seriously) but when I explained the concept she took her cold showers without a complaint like a good little trooper.
    Of course yesterday I did not take any shower at all, for the very good reason that there was no water whatsoever, hot or cold. I must admit that after 5 days this month without an operative toilet, the thought of no water did not exactly put a big smile on my face, but my mum taught me a creative trick or two on how to keep strictly clean under the most trying circumstances, so I left for school in good spirit.

    And now that the month is coming to an end I must say that the school and the teachers are absolutely amazing. I have learned so much, and they are so good, that I would have filled the school with pupils had I had the power to do so. Unfortunately with foreign soldiers already operating on Ukrainian territory, the pupils are not exactly lining up. In fact next week I think there are practically no pupils left at all.

    When I came home from school there was a man trying to open the door, who spoke to me in broken English. I could hear with half an ear that he was Italian, but he was so stressed out that it took him full two minutes of me speaking to him in Italian, and he answering me in Italian, before he said in a surprised voice " What, you speak Italian?" Turns out his wife and he had arrived the same day, had found out that there was no water (so no shower after a long trip) and the key to the front door did not work so they had not been able to go out and buy anything to eat. The wife practically kissed me when she found out that I did not only speak Italian, but was also willing to lend them my key so they could go out and get something to eat. But speaking Italian was almost physically painful, since my head was full of Russian. I apologized for my difficulties, but they assured me they were just overjoyed to meet a Ukrainian who spoke Italian. What were the odds? I had to tell them that I was unfortunately not Ukrainian, and they seemed to think it was unbelievable to find a Norwegian in Ukraine. Well, I guess there are not a lot of us here, particularly not now. Anyhow I loved speaking Italian again, even if it was really hard. But I soooo need to get some practice in both Italian and German, or I will lose them. I have been doing so much Russian lately that I have to focus even when I speak French and Spanish. Scary.

    And tomorrow is my big exam. No, it is not the B1 - I could not have pulled that off, besides the Russian institute which does the exams cancelled all activities already in February. I am however to meet my Ukrainian friends, the ones who made me want to learn Russian in the first place. I will meet them tomorrow, and then I will see how it works out. Cross your fingers for me :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2014
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  17. Peregrinus

    Peregrinus Active Member

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    Fingers crossed. Another nice report with the kind of gritty details that give a better image of what you are experiencing. Nice occasion to use your Italian too. Re your other langs, Big Dog has written on maintenance as have others. You need to find a good soap opera in each of your langs to watch a couple times a week. (ha! "good soap opera" - an example for my oxymoron thread)
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  18. Solfrid Cristina

    Solfrid Cristina Member VIP member

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    You give good advice, Peregrinus, my problem is that 98% of what I watch, I watch with my children, and if can manage to bully them into watching films in French, Spanish and Russian, which they have agreed to, it is hard to ask them to do German and Italian as well. My French really improved vastly when I watched a lot of French series because of the Super Challenge though, so I know I should take your advice :)
  19. Big_Dog

    Big_Dog Administrator Staff Member

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    That threw me for a minute - it took me a while to realize you were talking about a shared front door. Good luck with your friends tomorrow!
  20. Peregrinus

    Peregrinus Active Member

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    I'd bet that Dr. Arguelles doesn't find it hard with his kids :). No telling how many languages, including ancient ones, they "agree" to study to please their father.


    Re films vs TV series, I personally have found series much better. They are shorter to begin with and thus can be used more flexibly. Most importantly though, series tend to have much more dialogue and less action, and dialogue of the everyday variety. Exceptions are series like Tatort which I watch, and which is much harder than soaps. If you want a relatively easy crime type of series for German though, check out Kommissar Rex on youtube, which is basically about a detective and his very clever dog who helps him deal with the bad guys and rescue people when necessary, including his master. Over the years various detectives get killed off and Rex gets new masters, including Italian ones. I never watched it past the first few seasons with the original Rex who clearly was the smartest dog of the lot and had a closer relationship with his masters, but I suspect you can find later episodes in Italian as well.

    Link to all the seasons on youtube: Kommisar Rex

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