Gary

Discussion in 'Member introductions' started by garyb, Jun 5, 2014.

  1. garyb

    garyb Member

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    Hey all, I've finally made it over here! Most of you probably already know me from HTLAL, and for the moment I'm going to keep my log over there, but I thought I'd check this site out to join in the discussions and see how things go.

    Anyway, I'm from Scotland, and my first taste of languages was high school French. I enjoyed it but didn't exactly have a passion, and we all know about the quality of these type of classes: in the end I had done five years with very little to show for it. Couldn't understand or speak much, although I knew the verbs quite well. But several years and a few trips to the French Alps later, I decided to pick it up again; I suppose the main motivator was meeting a couple of English guys on one of these trips who were conversational in French and thinking "I could do that too!". It took me a while to actually make a serious start, but I really got into it some time after finishing university.

    At the start I just wanted to know enough to get by, but we know how these things go and the more I learned the more I wanted to learn. And around that time I had quite a few Spanish and Italian friends, and I had dated an Italian girl; I found that I got on very well with these people, they had a good outlook on life and their parties were often a lot more interesting and fun than those with fellow Scots and Brits, and of course I heard the languages a lot. That made me curious, and so I decided I wanted to learn them too at some point, especially knowing that their relation to French and to each other would make it easier. I was originally planning to start Spanish after French, but a long weekend in Italy made me change my mind, and I got stuck into Italian about two and a half years ago.

    This year, I added Spanish into the mix; I also decided to stop learning French, mainly because I find it hard to socialise and make friends with most of its speakers and so it's not very useful to me, and I've encountered a lot of negative attitudes towards my French despite having a fairly advanced level. That said, I've also had some good experiences and great conversations, I hope to maintain my level, and I won't rule out picking it up again in future if I find a use for it.

    I also intend to learn some Greek at some point in the future, as half my family is from Greece and I'd like to get in touch with that part of my heritage. But I already have too many languages and not enough time...

    As you've probably guessed by now, my main interest in languages is social: meeting people, connecting with cultures, sharing experiences, and so most of my efforts and methods are focused on conversation. Pronunciation and accent improvement is a particular interest for me, since it's something I have no natural talent for whatsoever and generally isn't addressed enough in language learning material and discussion.
  2. Peregrinus

    Peregrinus Active Member

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    Hi garyb,

    Welcome to the forum!


    This comment surprises me based on previous discussions on HTLAL. I seem to remember people saying that the French were a lot less likely to switch to English than in other parts of Europe, and that they appreciated efforts of others to learn their language. So do you think your negative experiences were based more on societal reasons than language ones? It certainly would be discouraging to learn a language to a high level and then find it difficult to actually use with native speakers.
  3. tastyonions

    tastyonions Member VIP member

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    Welcome to Polydog!

    Those frictions with the French must be disappointing. I haven't experienced the same thing, but on the other hand, I have never tried to relate to them in a deeper way than just having conversations with them once in a while. I have heard, though, sometimes from French people themselves, that it can be tough to make headway into their "inner circle." Even so, I can't say I have gotten any condescension or other negativity on the level of language, or at least if I did, I was too oblivious to pick up on it -- which is a definite possibility!
  4. Big_Dog

    Big_Dog Administrator Staff Member

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    Welcome garyb! Glad you could make it.
  5. Wise owl chick

    Wise owl chick Active Member

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    Hi garyb

    Probably your experiences with the negative criticism of your french was by the French in Paris?

    In Belgium, all the people say that the Parisians are like this (arrogant, that they think that only their way is the correct one etc ). I was on vacation in Normandy about 2 or 3 years ago and the people were nice, friendly and kind. Also in Wallonia, I don't think that the people would criticise your french.
  6. Bjorn

    Bjorn Active Member VIP member

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    Welcome to the forum!
  7. garyb

    garyb Member

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    Most of my experiences with the French have actually been with people living/studying here in Edinburgh, from all different parts of France, and also at a music festival in France that I've attended several times (again, people from all over) and yes, a couple of times in Paris. The negative ones have overwhelmingly been with people of my age group, say 20-30; I find people older than that to be much more receptive, even if we have less in common.

    I've not had much explicit negative criticism, more just people not taking me seriously and acting as if I'm a beginner, although as Peregrinus said, most of my problems have indeed been social rather than related to the language. I suppose I just find the culture and social groups to be very closed, even knowing the language, and even French people have agreed with me on that, like tastyonions said. Of course I'm not ruling out the possibility that the problem is me as well as them and it's just some sort of cultural incompatibility.

    As I said in the travel thread, I've always found the Parisians and the French to be very courteous, polite and helpful, despite the negative stereotypes. People have literally come up to me in the street and helped me when I was looking for things, without me even asking. And they were happy to speak French with me. It's just socially that I have problems, and I suppose that prevents me from seeing French as "real" as opposed to some sort of academic subject: I speak Italian and Spanish with Italian and Spanish friends as part of my social life, while most of my French is spoken with other learners, mostly beginner to intermediate, in the somewhat artificial setting of language meetups, or in superficial tourist situations in France. So I've just accepted this incompatibility and decided there's no point in trying to force it and keep putting in effort.
  8. Wise owl chick

    Wise owl chick Active Member

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    Why people always think that French is only spoken in France? That the only native speakers are the French?

    Belgium is different, socially and culturally.
  9. biTsar

    biTsar Active Member VIP member

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    I don't even know French but when buying from eBay.fr, and negotiating the crating and shipping of heavy antiques, I have routinely found the French to be: nice human beings. And very patient with the machine translated potential grammatical train wrecks I have sent them. True story: a money transfer got snagged and this one guy shipped an expensive item before receiving payment ! I've never had that happen anywhere else on earth. Vive la France !
  10. Peregrinus

    Peregrinus Active Member

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    garyb,

    I think the situation you describe, trying to speak to French persons in your home country, may be the problem, in that they are a self-selected group of people who live abroad temporarily, and perhaps are not representative of the French as a whole, especially since they all seem to speak very good English. This probably would not be a problem for non-native speakers of English interacting with expats abroad, since Brits/Yanks/Aussies are not known for their prowess in foreign languages. These people I suspect are college educated young professionals and students rather than representing other strata of French society, so you are limited by that.

    I guess the only suggestions I could offer would be vacations in France/Belgium and football (soccer) matches when a French team is playing in Edinburgh and you could sit on the French side. The latter might seem strange to French football fans but sports tend to be a great leveler.
  11. garyb

    garyb Member

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    Actually since you mention Belgium, I knew a woman from Liège who was lovely and friendly and happy to help people with French. I've only ever passed through the country and stopped at a supermarket near Brussels, but the cheap and tasty meat and beer impressed me so I need to go back :). And I've always been told that the Québecois are a friendly lot, but I've rarely met any so I can't confirm.

    You're right, most of these people are students or graduates here temporarily so it's quite a particular sub-group of French people (although I suppose one could say the same for many of my Italian and Spanish friends). My main socialising experience in Paris was at a Couchsurfing meeting which again a particular kind of person goes to, the sort of internationally-minded type who's going to be keen on English. And at the music festival... again it's probably a particular demographic who tend to go to these things, metal fans are generally quite educated and into travel. It's definitely an interesting point I've not really thought of before.
  12. Cainntear

    Cainntear Active Member VIP member

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    Which meetups do you go to? There used to be a 50-50 mix of learners and natives at the French table in the Victoria Language Café. (Mondays, I think...)
  13. garyb

    garyb Member

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    I used to go there a lot but I recently gave up on it, at least for the moment. Too busy, noisy and crowded so it's hard to hear and talk to people; too hit-or-miss for finding natives (50-50 does happen but it's rare, and often it'll be natives at one side speaking only to each other and learners at the other); too many people who want to practise English but aren't keen to speak their language with learners in return; too many people who just come to socialise in English and sit at the French/Spanish table with no intention of speaking that language and spoil it for those who do want to learn; it's a lot less friendly than it was, say, a couple of years ago; I could go on... All that plus the fact that I'm usually pretty tired on Monday evenings after the weekend then a long day at work, so dealing with a busy situation that requires a ton of assertiveness isn't something I'm particularly in the mood for and it was stressing me out. So I felt like I wasn't getting much out of it and I decided have a break for a while.

    I do usually go to the French meetups every other Wednesday. Again hit-or-miss for native speakers but it's a much more calm and friendly atmosphere.
  14. Cainntear

    Cainntear Active Member VIP member

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    Are you the Gary that used to go to exchange when it was in the Queen's Arms?
  15. garyb

    garyb Member

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    Yes that's me, I went to the Queen's Arms sometimes in my early days of learning French! I'm pretty sure I know who you are based on your languages.
  16. Cainntear

    Cainntear Active Member VIP member

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    7 billion people on this planet, and it still feels like a small world...!
    garyb likes this.

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