BAnna's various languages log

Well, as much as I love HTLAL, using it can sometimes be a real pain. It will be undoubtedly be back soon, but I have decided to keep a log here as well. For 2014, I'm on the Spaß (German) and Lobo (Spanish) teams, so once HTLAL is back I'll continue to post monthly updates there and do the team challenges, but for my stream-of-consciousness log stuff that's really just for me and probably no one else reads anyway, I think I'll post here. It's just so much easier...but I do feel somewhat torn about it.

OK. So, it's update time:
April 19

A couple of weeks ago my husband (native Latin American) and I spent our vacation in Spain, and very strangely, he was having more trouble understanding people there than I was. The mystery was unfortunately solved as to why he had a surprisingly hard time understanding peninsular Spanish: he just found out he has some hearing loss. Looking back, I realize it was always in a noisy setting such as a crowded restaurant or bar, where he was having trouble understanding what people were saying. It was because he couldn't actually hear them.

Currently I am spending the majority of my study time on Russian since I'm a beginner and I am going very slowly. I just finished Pimsleur 1 unit 14, and am using a couple of high school textbooks: Russian for Everyone, and Russian Face to Face and the associated youtube video course Russian World. Besides that, I started listening to BBSeva (Russian podcast from BBC). I don't understand much more than isolated words, but I am truly thrilled when I do understand something. My local library has a lot of resources for Russian speakers (we have a fairly good sized population). When you go to the automatic check-out kiosks, you can choose English, Spanish, Chinese or Russian. Anyway, I've been watching movies, even if all I can understand are things like "Good evening-Добрый вечер", "Hello-привет", etc. One movie I particularly enjoyed from youtube was Исчезнувшая империя (Vanished Empire). And I found the Russian radio station from LA and could actually understand a few words from this song: Just a friend Просто друг.


For Spanish and German, I spend time every day doing one or more of the following: reading books or websites, listening to audiobooks, watching films or the news, talking to native speakers (via skype or live) and occasionally getting out the grammar book or dictionary when I find something that has piqued my interest or feel like doing some practice. I recently skimmed through a book from the library called History of the Spanish Language, which had a lot of linguistic analysis, but also some more entertaining stuff for this bear of little brain, such as how 80% of the women settlers to Latin America were Andalusians and how that affected pronunciation, why "vos" is still used in Central America and Argentina (they were too isolated from the main centers in Mexico City and Lima), and how the word arroz (rice) came from an Arabic word that came originally from Sanskrit via Persian, then Ancient Greek. There were tons of examples like that, but the book was a bit on the academic side, so I just skimmed it for the good stuff.

Onward. I think the below applies to language learning pretty well, as well as other projects. I don't remember what website I pulled it off of, but it's probably easy to google.

The Cult of Done Manifesto

1. There are three states of being. Not knowing, action and completion.
2. Accept that everything is a draft. It helps to get it done.
3. There is no editing stage.
4. Pretending you know what you’re doing is almost the same as knowing what you are doing, so just accept that you know what you’re doing even if you don’t and do it.
5. Banish procrastination. If you wait more than a week to get an idea done, abandon it.
6. The point of being done is not to finish but to get other things done.
7. Once you’re done you can throw it away.
8. Laugh at perfection. It’s boring and keeps you from being done.
9. People without dirty hands are wrong. Doing something makes you right.
10. Failure counts as done. So do mistakes.
11. Destruction is a variant of done.
12. If you have an idea and publish it on the internet, that counts as a ghost of done.
13. Done is the engine of more.

Best of luck with your studies!

Thanks, cm.1

Here's the latest update:

April 26
In preparation for the SuperChallenge, I ordered some easy reader books from Russian Online Bookstore. I am not that confident about my ability to actually read real content in Russian, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Until May 1, I'm going to continue to focus on learning materials only, since I probably won't have time to do as much formal study once the challenge starts. The time I've been putting in on Russian since we returned from Spain has definitely helped.

Have a head cold, so I've been wasting time on the internet since it doesn't require much actual brain power.

Good luck with your studies!

Hi BAnna Good luck with your studies and log

Polydog is a MUCH nicer forum than htlal where 3426897544252626777 million people were deleted and banned because one moderator or two, didn't like them!

8 is important, I agree. when I was younger I was perfectionist also, but not more.

Thanks to all for the good wishes.

I'm moving my Russian log over here since I'm not on a team for that on HTLAL. Starting today I'm focusing on Russian for the 6WC and including it in the Super Challenge, but below is the summary of last month's activities. Note: We were in Spain for 2 weeks in March and I did not study Russian to speak of, so had to do some review.

End of April summary
RU:
Studied Pimsleur 11-16. The recommendation is to do it until you're 80% comfortable, but I like to do
them until I'm about 96% comfortable. I found saying "Достаточно" difficult, for just one example. Also did
Russian World I lessons 44-61, which I did in conjunction with lessons 5-7 of the text Русский язык для Всех (Russian
for Everybody) and Face to Face lessons 5-7. Also do the exercises for both of these, so it gives me
practice writing by hand and reading. Some of this was post-vacation review, some new stuff: telling time,
numbers, adjectives, verbs of motion, question intonation. In Assimil Russian with Ease, I did the first 6 lessons,
but I don't have a solid feel for this yet, though I know lots of people love Assimil. At this point, I'm not drinking
the Kool-Aid, but I'm not really ready to give an opinion one way or the other.

Watched a bunch of movies, and most were pretty good:
Шерлок Холмс (Sherlock Holmes) part of a series, and they're great.
Брестская крепость (Brest Fortress) intense WWII, about the famous battle
Измена (Betrayal) offbeat love?? story, interesting cinematography
Ошибка резиаента (Secret Agent's Blunder) B&W 60s spy thriller, told from Soviet viewpoint, some German in it
as well.
Исчезнувшая империя (The Vanished Empire) about teens in 70s USSR
Свинка Пепа (Pepa the pig) cartoon that I can sorta follow without subs
Палата №6 (Ward No.6) based on Chekhov's story of a Dr. at a mental institution who ends up being a patient
Русский ковчег (Russian Ark). This last is famous for being done in a single 96-minute shot in the Hermitage in
St. Petersburg. There's no real plot, instead it's a walkthrough of Russian history in a pseudo-documentary,
pseudo-dream style. The costumes were definitely cool.

Other: started in English "Natasha's Dance: A Cultural History of Russia" by Figes. Just read 50 p or so, but so far
it's very interesting, for example, the obsession with Europe and France was so intense in the 19th century, that
many aristocrats could barely speak Russian at all, just what they picked up from their serfs. The "Understanding
Russians" Coursera class I've enrolled in has been postponed a couple of weeks.

Ask me again in 5 years...
Today it took me about an hour and a half to read 10 pages of a child's book слон хортон и город кмотов (Horton hears a who) in Russian, but it was intensive: I was looking up every unknown word and trying to puzzle out the grammar. At that rate, it would take at least 5 years to read a piece of adult literature. I'm thinking of checking it out from the library again in a few months and afterwards periodically as a measure of improvement of my comprehension and reading speed. I have some graded readers designed for learners (present tense, etc.) so I'm going to stick with those for a while. It only takes me half an hour to read 6 pages of those.

I started studying German a little over 3 years ago and can just now handle popular novels, but haven't yet read anyone like Mann, for example. I've read War and Peace, Bros Karamazov, etc. in English translation and they took quite a while. At this point, I cannot imagine reading them in Russian. There's undoubtedly some good modern Russian literature that may be more accessible than that by some of the 19th century writers. And of course some of the classics are easier than others. Plays might be a good entry point, maybe Chekhov? And then of course there's poetry, which though challenging, could be possibly managed since it typically comes in smaller chunks.

You mention you are wavering about it, is it just that it's so damned hard... or are your priorities elsewhere? I'm trying to figure out my priorities around languages. Reading is definitely a strong incentive for me. I have two long-term skype partners with whom I share common interests, but speaking in itself is not really what drives me personally since I've found that once you get to a fairly decent level, a lot of conversation is not actually about anything particularly interesting: how's the weather, how was your week, what are the other family members up to, what are your vacation plans, etc.
Ah, maybe I'm just cranky because I have a cold...

Ahh, finally feeling better after about a week. I did watch a lot of movies...never fell asleep but I don't know if my concentration was all that great. I read an article stating that movies are good for picking up/reinforcing vocabulary, but not so much for grammar. I did notice everytime I heard a familiar word, there was a bit of a thrill in my brain like the tiny dance of footsteps on one of my neural pathways responsible for the processing of words ... could also have been just a side effect of the decongestant.

I do sometimes use Lingq to get the gist if I want to read something in electronic form, but I find it not ideal in dealing with cases, and I actually like looking up stuff by hand in a paper dictionary for a number of reasons: my public library has boatloads of stuff on paper in Russian (lots of videos too, but about half have no subtitles), I like to write things out since I think it helps me remember better, and while using the dictionary I fortuitously stumble across other interesting stuff (roots, related words, reinforcement of adjective endings, etc.) I really like the one I have: Penguin Russian Dictionary by Ryan and Norman, which I found used for ~$5. I also use the Leo Russian-German online dictionary. You can go past the first level definition and get declension tables and conjugations for verbs. I think Russian would be much more of a struggle if I didn't know German (a decent feel for cases and the whole locative/destination thing). куда = wohin (self-evident in German), but also =whither....uh, yeah, I'll stick with wohin.

Re: the classics in whatever language. One thing of the best things about learning a language outside of an academic setting, is that you are free to make the rules: read or watch what you want, learn slang or not, learn about whatever stuff interests you...
A lot of us think we have to read the great works in the language(s) we learn, but providing we aren't pursuing an advanced degree, we actually have the luxury of following our interests and reading/watching whatever we feel like or nothing at all. The best thing about making up your own rules is you get to decide what's important: 15th century poetry, sci-fi, zoological treatises, chatting up folks in bars, Mexican wrestling, true crime, cooking terms, reading only, speaking only, whatever you like.

Oh, I am so going to follow this log. I like your style. The fact that you as an almost beginner in Russian can give me, who have studied Russian for some time useful tips, doesn't hurt either.

Where did you find the films? I have been wanting to find Russian Arc for some time.

And I find it amazing that you are already reading Russian. I did not start on that until I had done Pimsleur 1-3.

As for the classical stuff, I will get there eventually, but at the moment I am totally going for works in translation. I find that being familiar with the cultural context makes life a lot easier. And I am sorry to say it, but as an internationally minded Norwegian, English and American culture seems more familiar than even Norwegian culture, whereas Russian culture, in spite of Russia being a neighbor country is very exotic.

So right now I am doing my go-to-author for every language I have ever learned - Agatha Christie. I have three or four Russian Agatha Christie books, then I will do Twilight - all four frivolous books, then I'll move on to Dan Brown, who a kind Russian friend gave me. Then I am moving on to a couple of easy readers I have, then Harry Potter and some Russian crime novels I bought in Ukraine, then possibly some books for youngsters that I saw at the library, and then some bilingual French/Russian short stories and novels.

And then, when I am comfortable reading Russian, I will read the classics. I want to be able to look a Russian in the eye and tell him that I have read Anna Karenina in Russian. If for nothing else, for the bad ass quality of that.

But the main reason why I want to read the classics in Russian, is precisely because most of them make little sense to me in Norwegian. One of my favorite actors said that his all time favorite author was Chekov, so I went and read "Three sisters" and could not believe how incredibly bad I found it. I figured it had to be because of the translation, and that once I could read it in Russian it would have a better feel. Now of course, if I get to read the classics in Russian and I still find them weird, then I will be seriously mad. On the other hand, I will by then also hopefully be seriously good at Russian. So there is a win either way. It could be a win-win, or just a win, but still a win

Anyhow, I will be following you closely, sis. And I am sure you would be welcome on our Russian team if you would like to - we do monthly challenges, and this month's challenge is about Russian films

Thanks for the encouragement. Sometimes I ask myself what have I gotten myself into with the study of Russian and Russian culture, but they are both really fascinating, though they can be mind-boggling at times. Exotic is a nice word...or there's the old quote by Churchill, something about a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma (?) maybe even inside a матрешка?

My local library is fantastic and actually had Russian Ark available to stream as video. They even have a Russian-language book club (that's for way, way into the future for me).

I'm not at all comfortable reading at this point. 10 pages of the Horton book was actually only 10 paragraphs, about 2 pages of an equivalent book for adults, maybe 500 words, if that, and yes, it took me an hour an a half. I'm "reading" very short passages from materials for learners, mini-stories or dialogues of maybe 75-100 words, and usually need to look up about 1/4 of them, but it's slowly getting easier. The approach of reading as much accessible content as possible seems incredibly valuable, whether it's detective/favorite/young adult novels for a more advanced learner or very simplified texts for someone like me. The classics will be there when you're ready (and if you're interested in them).

Regarding Team катюша: thanks for the invitation, but I actually have a weird history with this team. Back in mid December, I decided to study Russian this year in addition to German and on one of the TAC signups said, "add me", but the holidays intervened so I wasn't online much and then the team was closed. (It turned out my post was just missed). At that point, I was just learning the Cyrillic alphabet and I said to myself, "forget the Russian team; who knows if you'll even keep up with studying it?" Instead I decided to work on improving my reading and writing in Spanish and fix those bad lazy habits I've gotten into over the years, so I joined the Spanish Lobos in addition to the German team. Then Team катюша allowed one or two more people, and I got kinda steamed (mostly at myself for not just insisting earlier) and kind Josquin offered to make me an observer or even a full member. At that point though, I was overwhelmed with being on the German and Spanish teams (not to mention studying three languages) and the complexity of Russian was just starting to sink in, so I thought, wait a minute, do I really even want to do this??? and I turned the offer down. It's all worked out well, though, and for now I'm very happy just doing an independent Russian log here. I still do need to improve my German and Spanish, and I'm really too much of a beginner to be much of a participant on the Russian team, not to mention that I'd have to subject myself to more torturously slow reading of posts on that other forum... I really do need to spend less time on forums and more time on language study.

So I tried cutting back film-watching in Russian to 30 minute chunks. It does work better, but I still rely on the subs too much. Now to plan B: no subs and programs made for preschoolers, like Trotro, Peppa the pig, and Sesame Street in Russian. My son is in his 20s, so it's been a while since I've checked out what 3 year olds watch. Any suggestions are welcome...

On a brighter note, working with graded readers (limited vocabulary and grammar) is starting to pay off. Reading is getting a wee bit easier. Ahhhh...

From Understanding Russians course, various links on Russian culture for future reference:
Pew Research Global Attitudes: Russia http://www.pewglobal.org/respondents/russia/
Understand Russia: http://understandrussia.com/
Russian Language, Culture, Customs and Etiquette: http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/resources/global-etiquette/russia-country-profile.html

Featured term from first week's lectures:
тоска (toska - noun /ˈtō-skə/) - Russian word roughly translated as sadness, melancholia, lugubriousness.

"No single word in English renders all the shades of toska. At its deepest and most painful, it is a sensation of great spiritual anguish, often without any specific cause. At less morbid levels it is a dull ache of the soul, a longing with nothing to long for, a sick pining, a vague restlessness, mental throes, yearning. In particular cases it may be the desire for somebody of something specific, nostalgia, love-sickness. At the lowest level it grades into ennui, boredom.” -Vladimir Nabokov

One of my favorite books is Nabokov's "King, Queen, Knave". I realize you are not ready for it in Russian, but I saw that you have studied German, so just out of curiosity I checked abebooks to see if they had a German edition. If you are interested, there is a copy - for only $38,000 (plus shipping).

Glad to hear it's "only" $38,000 ... oh man, but the shipping charges will get you every time.

Don't worry, I will order one for everyone in this forum and pay the shipping charges also. It will cost some millions or billions $, but I will use my dad's credit card hahahahahahahaa

I will also buy some copies of this religious 17th century book for only 14,2 millions $ http://www.bfmtv.com/international/...onde-adjuge-a-14-millions-dollars-655014.html

How are your languages?

Все в порядке! ¡Magnífico! Prima!

When I don't post much, it means I'm busy with languages, other hobbies and/or real life.
Participating in a forum is my favorite way of procrastinating...

Gotta go, since I have stuff to do, but I'll be back.